What difference does it make if I believe in God?
Good question! Does it really matter if I believe in God or not? Would my life "look different" if I didn't believe in God? Would my life change if I did believe in God?
posted by Pia's Pals @ 10:03 PM
15 comments
15 Comments:
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I think that it is heartening to believe that there is some higher order in this universe. As humans, we are very afraid of lonliness, and belief in God helps combat that fear. We are taught to believe in a God who is intimately interested in the trials and tribulations of our lives. It is through that believe that we give morality teeth. If no one is watching while we do something immoral, then there is no one to answer to and we can easily slip into patterns of unloving behavior. However, if God is watching, then it is a different story - we feel some pressure to please God, to show that we are trying to be God-like.
Also, God is supposed to be the best of the best. We have no perfect example of this type of person. At some point everyone makes mistakes. Unless we have someone like John Paul II or Mother Theresa as a parent, then it is likely that our parents, too, have made mistakes. We witness those mistakes. If we believe in a infallible God, then we can believe that attaining perfection is possible. God can be our example (albeit an invisible one*).
*I realize that the invisibility factor can be contested by the existence of Jesus. However, in my opinion, he's not here on earth now, so he's still an invisible force.
When you die do you actually see heaven and I mean the specific house of Jesus I'm asking this because our body's have eyes. Do our souls have eyes?
Hi spiritcross, welcome back, you must be nine by now! Happy Birthday and hope it was fun!
Yes, spiritcross, I believe we have eyes in heaven and we will see the specific house of Jesus. When Jesus rose after his crucifixtion, he had his GLORIFIED body. That is the kind of body we will after we die and rise.
And as we know, with his glorified body, Jesus talked to his disciples, touched them, ate fish with them on the shore and could even go through walls! Now how cool is that??!!! So we do still have our 5 senses when we die, it is like our bodies are now so FULL of God's light we just SHINE everywhere we go and everything is intensified to the max!!!!
Hi Sister-with-Heart, Soul Journey, and Spiritcross:
I guess I wrestle with some of the things that you have said, Soul Journey. The conventional wisdom of the Catholic Church (at least in my experience) has been that our place as humans is to serve God, discern his will, and act appropriately, recognizing human weakness, infallability, etc. We should lead our whole lives seeking
God's validation, the ultimate validation being our "reward" in heaven. And as you described, God holds the role of divine watcher, the big man with a plan, keeping us in line.
I hadn't questioned that "truth" until I thought about it in the context of my own earthly relationships. If I descibed that validation-seeking, perfection-seeking, partner as enforcer-type relationship as one between boyfriend and girlfriend/husband and wife, it strikes me as pretty destructive, pretty one-sided, and really pretty boring.
I sometimes wonder if God has alot less interest in calling the shots, in monitoring our every move and alot more interest in being part of our human experience
of exploration. I think our idiosyncracies and inperfections might be as or more interesting to Her than our perfections. I wonder if this thing called free will is really an opportunity to explore rather than something to screw up. Whether God is less interested in our seeking Her validation, than us seeking Her within ourselves. Does our relationship to God change and understanding of God change if we believe that God wants us to be semi-autonomous human beings that risk, that discover, that experiment? And if we allow ourselves that freedom?
It's hard to wrap my brain around the possibility of having a relationship with a divine God, but it makes it alot more interesting and alot more real if I believe that God thinks I have something to contribute to that relationship.
I'm not sure I got even close to answering the blog question...but I'll hoist this on the webpage anyway and see what you all think.
Green - It's good that you wrestle with the comments here! The idea of God is a complicated one and we can only brush the surface of our conceptualizations of God in this forum. I think that that's what makes religion/theology so interesting and fun!
Perhaps I should have prefaced my last comment with this: that I was stating some of the reasons why some people believe in God. It was not any hard and fast "belief system" of my own. I've studied, compared, and tried on a lot of different religions, so I have a lot of ideas floating around in my head, none of which stay still very long.
Certainly, God as a "watcher" is not my only thought on the subject. I do seek to be a more perfect, more God-like person. And if I behave in an immoral or hurtful way, then don't think it's out of line to expect God to care and look upon my actions with distain. If God is to be an active member of the God/me relationship, then I need to expect certain things from God since he/she/it is not exactly giving me direct/obvious feedback. I like to think that seeing love in the world is part of being "validated" by God. Seeing terrible things in the world reminds me that I am a vessel of action and can actively make a difference in changing the world.
I do not see God as an "enforcer." I envision an enforcer god as one from the Old Testament with fiery wrath and all that business. If I act like a jerk, God doesn't seem inclined to strike me down with lightning. It is through my image of God that I enforce myself. My deeply rooted moral principles guide me to act in a certain way. I try to make sure that that way is as "right" as possible at the time.
I also hope that all of your relationships are not one-sided, boring, and destructive. My earthly relationships are a lot more two-sided than my "relationship" with God. Plus, our earthly relationships should help us become better people too, or they are destructive. In fact, even destructive relationships should help us learn more about life and the kind of people we want to be. Ha! There's a question: if there was no destructiveness /evilness/ badness in the world - how would we recognize goodness?
Regarding your "is God really interested" comments: Have you ever read "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsch? You might find it interesting. It has some thoughts along the lines of your comments.
Another thing about the original question: I actually do not believe that it is essential to believe in god(s)/ higher power(s) of any kind to be a good and wonderful person. If there is a God, then he/she/it loves Atheists too. If there isn't, then the Atheists were right, and I'm cool with that. When it comes down to it, I think it's much more important to be a good and decent person (granted that is based on my perceptions of morality, ethics, decency, etc.), than to believe in one theocracy or another. I don't believe that there's a true church or belief system. I think that there are a lot of good ideas out there and that people should participate in the one (or more) that helps them to become the best person they can be.
This has gotten insanely long, reminding me that I shouldn’t drink coffee and get all wired up this late!
Becky – I love this blog and all the ideas/thoughts/etc. that it brings out. So thanks!
Wow! Lot's of good conversation going on here with Soul Journey and Green. Thanks for sharing, come on back again! Just gonna' throw some of my own wonderings out there!
I believe it makes a HUGE difference in one's life if one believes in God (or any higher power they have found a "fond" name for). I find it interesting how right away we say, "Oh, but look there's a good person and they don't believe in God". To be honest with you, I have not run into too many of those "classic" cases and I have talked to hundreds upon hundreds of people on my spiritual path.
BUT, I have talked to MANY who had not, yet, had the opportunity to talk to anyone about their spiritual beliefs, so all along they thought they had none, until, they had a non-judgmental listening ear, that could accept their experience of God and their name for God. But, because they felt so untraditional and thus so unaccented, it was easier to say that they were an atheist to everyone!
I guess, I feel when it is all said and done, I have noted that the one's believing in some higher power, be it nature or the stars or higher intelligence or Allaha or Mother God, the "quality" of one's day to day life is usually very visible and consistent in the realm of, i.e., their committed other-centeredness, a deep peace radiating from them, a joy that is infectious, an active sense and acceptance that ALL people are equal and one, a compassion that forgives unconditionally and a willingness to give their all to a God who loves to give all to us everyday...in very unique, surprising, unrehearsed, nurturing and supportive ways!
Soul Journey, I noted your new quesiton for the next time around:) Thanks!
Sister with Heart:
I guess it all depends on what definition you use to define "god," "higher power," etc.
For instance, Buddhists are not guided by the purported wishes/ guidance/ etc. of a god or gods, but rather by The Way. The practice entails an effort to become enlightened, but that enlightenment is not brought about by a supernatural being, it is rather a capability that is within each one of us that we may seek out, develop, and share. The Buddah is not a god, he was a human person whose memory and teachings serve as the framework for a guide to life.
In that context, the qualities you speak of (a commitment to other-centeredness, a deep peace radiating, joy that is infectious, an active sense and acceptance that ALL people are equal and one, a compassion that forgives unconditionally) are not lost or diminished by the lack of a supernatural power. In fact, those qualities are all very important even in an non-god centered religion such as Buddhism. They are expressed and explored in a manner where it is not the supernatural that makes us whole and guides us, but rather a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world.
Basically, I think that spirituality and God are not the same thing, but can walk hand in hand.
Hi soul journey! I knew that Buddists did not believe in a "God", yet I thought they believed their enlightenment was only possible as they transcended from this reality into the next...which I thought they saw as a "higher" energy or level of consciousness and being, which involves something "other" than themselves.
I find interesting your comment on how spirituality and God are two separate things. I never thought of that before...because I have always linked the two! In fact, my working definition for Spirituality is...how do I experience the Spirit in the world...music, football, scripture, nature, Mass...in other words by what means do I encounter God in my life, that is my acclaimed spirituality.
Please tell me more of what you mean! I am very interested in your thoughts:)
All others feel free to jump in on your take!
I have been reading some of your very interesting comments on this question. I have found myself struggling lately with my newer found relationship with God. I truly am convinced that God speaks to us in many different ways as in some of the examples you use music, nature, words and relationships with others. My dilemma is finding the strength to continue the relationship. It seems to me the more we seek the more we are asked to find. I watched the movie "National Treasure" lately and was struck by how the main character was so convinced that there was a treasure out there to be found but each clue he found led to another, his father had become disillusioned by the whole thing but the son was determined to go on. Finally when they got to the last clue there was no treasure but the realization that the seeking was as much a part of the adventure (the movie did'nt end there but I won't spoil it for you). Why that idea appealed to me was because of my frustration when I think I found the answer I find myself being pushed on again, even though I don't want to be. I am as I said convinced of a higher spiritual power because I can say I have witnessed his presence many times. But is God a harder task master then we are led to believe. Does God not forgive us for using the feewill he gave us, why does he lead us to hope and then pull it away and replace it with something else, does God understand the struggle it is trying to help a child who's late for school find a shoe even when you are struggling inside to stay in relationship with him, who is God, is God me, is it coming to know myself that I come to know Him. Is that what enlightenment is all about.
Welcome, Pilgrim, I can tell you have been on the road for awhile, glad you came back to rest your questions here.
Your phrase I was struck with was, "The more we seek the more we are asked to find". I can really resonate with you on that! Seems you just begin "to catch on" to this wonderful, quiet, intimate relationship with God and then all of the sudden, you are on another wild wooly trip once again having no idea where it is going next!!!
For me, I have become resigned, and through the years peacefully so, to just accept how BIG God is, how MUCH about God there is to experience. And, I have come to admire how God can actually contain, hold back, hold in, hold on to, the incredible love he has for us!
I imagine like a mother, there are times you want to pour out ALL your love upon your children, yet depending on readiness, age, how big there little body is:), and circumstance (their peers hanging around), sometimes you have to hold back. That is your connect with God, and how his delicate timing is as percarious and precocious with us!
I have often thought, that if God more than blinked one eye lash at me, I would fall over overcome with his immense love. My body and life may not be ready to receive it right now. He is a God who knows when, where, what, how much we can take, though I bet everyday he holds back to give it ALL, as would be his wish and immediate desire.
If by the end of my days, my life has been lived in such a way that could actually sustain a full wink
from God, and still can stand to tell the story without virtually exploding, I can say, I knew heaven on earth.
PS Maybe then, too, I will be more ready for the hug I dream about at heaven's gates.
All feel free to relfect with Pilgrim on her great comments and questions. (I wonder if questions are actually what keeps the "quest" going?)
God makes a difference in my life because my God is a God of unconditional love. I can love myself, even when I make mistakes. This helps me to love others better, too. I don't expect perfection from anyone. My passion in life is to try to love like God loves.
I have only recently started reading this blog, and I would like to start by thanking Rebecca for hosting it. I feel that dialogue and discussion are some of the more important tools we have at our disposal.
I guess I should start off by saying that I do not believe in God, at least in any traditional sense. I was raised as a Buddhist and a scientist, and consequently do not believe that there is a higher power which has some sort of executive power over thing. I do, however, believe in the Law of Cause & Effect, which I think of in terms of any other scientific law like the Law of Gravity, the Law of Thermodynamics, etc, which is to say, the Law of Cause & Effect is not like a set of instructions/rules that you would program a computer or the universe with, it is a force, like the Law of Gravity, which is just there and always acting on things. Oh, I should also add in, that the Law of Cause & Effect is a scientific law, but I am thinking of it in terms of spirituality as well. Though I do not believe in God in the traditional sense, if I was going to label something God, it would be the Law of Cause & Effect.
So, we come to the question then, “What difference does it make if I believe in God?”
The longer and longer I think about this question, the more I come to the conclusion that I just do not know. I have never believed in God, and thus have no way of saying how I would be different if I did believe in God. I was not raised with a religion that had a god or spoke of a higher power, it was always the Law of Cause & Effect (which may be one of the reasons I was so attracted to the sciences, it meshed so well with my spiritual upbringing). Of course, I learned about religions with God(s) in school and through my friends, but I was never one of the people who was raised to believe in God and then one day decides to stop (I am sure it not as simple as that, but you get my gist). For me, there never was a God. I tried to image how I would be different if I decided today that I would start believing in God, but faith is not that simple and I would only be giving the Law of Cause & Effect the name “God”.
However, since I cannot say what difference it makes for me, I will describe the difference it has made for some of my Buddhist friends. One phrase I hear a lot from people who have converted to Nichiren Buddhism (type of Buddhism I practice, there are other types of Buddhism that do have gods and deities, or that hold Shakyamuni, the guy commonly referred to as “the Buddha”, to be a god) is that believing in the Law of Cause & Effect (often called the Mystic Law since we do not have nice little mathematical equation for it like we do for the Law of Gravity and such) has given them a greater sense of empowerment. One of the concepts that can be derived from the Mystic Law is what Buddhists call the “oneness of you and your environment”; you cannot make a cause without effecting your environment, and something cannot happen in your environment (which in the grand scale of things includes the entire universe) without it affecting you. This is the essence of why many of my Buddhist friends feel more empowered than when they believed in God – the causes you make here affect the entire world, and thus making noble and compassionate causes where you are now will have noble and compassionate effects around the world. In fact, the vary cause of living your life with the deepest respect and compassion for other individuals will have positive repercussions world-wide (this idea is often described with the saying “world peace through individual happiness”). Now, this is not to say that God could not act in the very same way, but from my understanding of what people learn about God, it is not usually taught that if you make good causes God will benefit others and the environment around you, as well.
Okay. I have rambled on enough. I will stop here for now.
Rebecca, thank you again for hosting such a wonderful forum for dialogue.
We are wondering about the prodigal son. But, first we are just wondering if we can figure out how to post here. So, here goes : )
OH, Goodness gracious! It worked, finally, after months of trying! yay!! Well, we wanted to post a question, but we don't know where to put it. We have a question regarding the story of the prodigal son, and a member of my family has a big problem, and question about it. Can I ask the question here? Thank you so much, Sister, for this forum : )
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